Traders Airsoft Forums

Ok, I've begun work on hammering out just what members will have to do in order to become Verified Traders on the site. This is just a first round of ideas, so feel free to chip in with your thoughts. My plan is to do this up in a PDF document, and then have applicant members download it, fill it out, and then either e-mail or physically mail it in to the verification team...which thus far consists of me.

1) Full Name

2) Date Of Birth

3) Physical Address

4) Mailing Address (if different from physical)

5) E-mail Address

6) Alternate E-Mail Address (for emergencies)

7) Member Name

8) Verification ID (driver's license, or something.. yes, this is under debate)

9) Attached Parental Consent Form (if member is under 18 years of age)

Now remember, this is rough, my first draft, but I want to get the process rolling, so people can have a say on this. The plan is to verify the information via telephone, and then have it on file for use as needed. Please keep in mind that this information will not be just freely distributed, but only given if a problem arises between members during transactions...or in cases were law enforcement is involved...and it WILL require a subpeona.

I realize that some may not be comfortable with giving out all this information, and that's fine, you don't HAVE to. This is only for members who wish to be Verified or Master traders, and enjoy the privileges that go along with that. We're trying to foster a secure, and friendly environment to exchange airsoft goods. We also want to ensure that a measure of responsibility is taken to ensure that underage airsofters are shown the right way to do things. We don't want to actively encourage underground trading, trust me. If airsofting is to gain a more positive image, we MUST do our part to show people that we're capable of being responsible for our actions, and our community. The toughest part of this equation will be HOW we verify who you are, and your age. There's only so many ways to do this.

We aren't going to prohibit any member from engaging in trade activities here, but as time goes on, only Verified and higher members will be allowed access to certain sales areas, have the full support from this site and its staff, when it comes to areas of commerce and daily activity.

As always, your input is needed, so speak up!

I think you have a good handle on it. Perhaps for Idea the person could photo copy or take a picture of their id. either a school id or other identification. I agree that getting an id will be the hardest part because it would can be easier to fake.

That would be great, but I believe some people like myself, would be wary of giving such information away.

Like, I came here through allizard, because he told me to, he's said great things about you if you are uncooldude, but I personally do not know who you are, haven't contacted you, nor really talked with you. I don't want to offend you (Allizard said you were his favorite customer *cry*), but coming from my point of view, you're a complete stranger, and I'm about to hand over to you almost everything that can be used to commit identify fraud (Happy to my family twice now)... I think that there should be a group of people who *everyone* knows, that can be used to verify this information, like the person who introduced them to this site or something...

I dunno, just me being paranoid...

I honestly don't expect anyone to give their valuable information right away. And really I don't think you should until we have some level of trust builded up. Don't forget Traders allow all members to buy sell trade, it's just that if you got in a bad deal from another user's who doesn't have verified status; there isn't much we can do. For people like me, I'm a Master Trader if I ever cross someone in the wrong way... I expect Colin to act in the appropriate way by suspending me, investigate and possible release my information to the authority.

Well.. let's just hope this ain't going to happen.

I completely understand your position, Joker. However, government-issued ID aside, if you aren't willing to divulge your name, address, phone number, and e-mail to me as a potential person to trade/buy/sell with, I most certainly wouldn't do business with you myself. I personally think that should be the MINIMUM people should be exchanging when cash or good is being exchanged online. If you don't, you're just setting yourself up to potentially be scammed. If I'm dealing with someone totally new to me, regardless of reputation, and the value of the items in question exceeds $25, you can bet I want some personal info on the person I'm dealing with. Otherwise, I'll take my business somewhere else. This all gets exchanged anyway if someone is using PayPal, or a Money Order for goods, so I don't see what the big deal is. I can empathize with fear of identity theft, but I hate to tell you this, with your I.P. address, people can find a hell of a lot out about you.

MY biggest concern, is verifying that people are over 18. Period. I do not want to be held responsible for underage members engaging in activities that their parents wouldn't approve of, and could potentially get them in legal trouble. Airsoft Canada has it's own verification method in place that entails a FACE TO FACE meeting with someone from the site that is an approved age verifier. You show them your ID, so they can indeed verify your information, and they report back with approval. Without that, you do NO trading whatsoever on their site. It's worked very well for them, but I can see how it would be very difficult for us to replicate this system at this point. Again, I'm open to suggestions guys. What do YOU see as acceptable?

Do you feel comfortable doing deals with people in the dark? People WILL get scammed sometime, trust me. Even if you don't, think about all the pet peeves you have about having to try a dozen different methods to even communicate with the person you deal with at times. I'm sure a lot of people have been there. I know I've been there MANY times. Being able to keep those lines of communication open is essential to everyone being happy, and encouraging trade. You put a LOT of faith in a retailer every time you give them your credit card information...think about that.

I've been shopping online for at least 7-8 years now. I use my head. I'm careful within reason. My bank HAS saved my ass a couple of times, but thus far, I've had very good results. A little paranoia is a good thing, when it makes you think. I've always said; trust your gut, it's never wrong.

That being said, feel free to make suggestions guys. I'm all ears. I want to ensure that at least our verified traders and higher are 18 or older. Period. I cannot take ANY measure of responsibility for deals done here, if you do a deal with someone we don't verify. There are a lot of teenage scammers out there, who willing take advantage of that system. I'd like us to have a 100% confidence rate here...wouldn't you?

Indeed. I've just seen a lot of people get screwed over multiple times by just supplying their name, phone number, and address... And then suddenly, the scammers have their social security number, bank accounts, and so on and so forth under their own control. I was actually just reading about how one of the Linkin Park band members had his entire family stalked by just giving out his birthdate and name... I kinda thank god most scammers are too stupid to track by IP address ^^


I'm good with name, address, phone number and email, but other things such as eye color, weight, and other information, I'd be a tad freaked to give out.

AirsoftCanada's system is great, except that it's frigging impossible for many members to get verified. I know some of my friends had to drive three hours to get verified by a person and they still didn't get their guns sold on that site. It seems to be a good system, but eliminates a lot of potential people.

I do not agree with the fact that verified traders and higher are 18 or older. That would also leave a significant population out of this website, and the trading community (Including myself). Who would want to trade with someone who is just a member, while the rest of the site is verified members?

I personally have done numerous deals, and worked with a few members on these forums. I've bought and sold around 30~ish times in airsoft, and all of them went successfully. I've actually just been scammed, and I know for a fact the guy is over 20. So I believe it'll be unfair to have verified traders and higher over 18.

Edit: Nvm about the 18 or older stuff, I can't read.

Verified and Master Traders will be members who have proven they are over 18 years of age, or have parental consent. I had stated that earlier. I fully realize that many airsofters are under 18. We just want to limit our liability, and provide a more secure environment for everyone. Any member will be allowed to engage in trade here at Traders. We're just providing a support system that will assist verified members, in the event something goes wrong. Having information available to provide them with can be very helpful in alleviating a lot of issues that could be solved by simple communication.

The 'Verified' and 'Master' trader designation will actually mean something here. It will mean that you can be assured that the person you're dealing with is on the level, and in the case of Master Traders, have shown exceptional traits in all their dealings. These will be the standard for people to try to achieve. We also want to encourage retailers and distributors to come here, and give our little community some special treatment. We need to be able to show them that our members are worthy of their time.

I feel pretty safe about the level of information you are asking for. Most of that information is available online in other places for me as well. Not so happy about the ID, but I do trust the people currently associated with this site. My only worry is the future, and any possible handing over of control to people I am not familiar with. Of course if I still continue to be a part of this site, that won't be a problem.

Not so happy about the alternate email address since I do try to keep my business and forum emails completely separate from my personal emails, so as emergencies go that would necessitate me providing my personal account.

I would like some clarification on the use of the differing addresses since I have my home address, but conduct most of my transaction through my work address in terms of shipment. So I like to be in control of what address is provided at any given time.

The purpose of the ID portion of the verification is strictly to confirm legal age. If you've got a better suggestion on how we should handle it, I'm all ears. I fully realize people aren't comfortable divulging some information like that, so I'm not sure what other method we can use. I guess I could just charge people a fee for verification, which would require a credit card charge. You have to be 18 to get one, so, that's another method.

The reason I ask for an alternate e-mail address, is because so many people use hotmail, gmail, yahoo, etc. Having a 'real' e-mail address to use in case response is not being received from the primary would be the first line of communication backup to use in case of a problem. Just keep in mind that this is PRIVATE information guys. It's NOT going to be publicly available for everyone to search through. If anyone will be using it in a problem situation, it will be one of the site staff members, working WITH the parties in question. This is part of what I meant when I said that Traders will support our Verified and Master traders. We will be personally working with each and every incident that occurs to minimize any exposure to your private information, and to act as mediators. A third, uninvolved party can really make a difference at times, I can assure you. We also do NOT send out spam, nor would we sell our member e-mail list. I personally maintain over 15 different e-mail accounts, I run my own online business, and I do IT work, so you really don't have to tell me about e-mail issues. I live and breathe it every day.

On the subject of addresses, I maintain a P.O. Box here, that I usually use for most of my sales transactions and such. The reason I do this, is because I live in a rural area, and my home mailbox exists on top of a post, out on the road. Not exactly the most secure location when you could potentially be receiving articles worth hundreds or thousands of dollars. We all also know how good couriers are about ENSURING they get a signature before dumping a parcel on porches...aren't we? That being said, with the P.O. Box, I KNOW my items will be safe and sound when I go to get them. I also maintain it for other business purposes. Now, in the case of any issues requiring the intervention of law enforcement, we would like to have a physical or home address that you can be reached at. Again, this is NOT going to be divulged willy-nilly. Only certain staff members will have access to the information, and will work in concert with both parties to get things resolved.

We want to ensure privacy for everyone using the site, but we want to have solid information on hand for people seeking Verification, again, so it actually MEANS something. Otherwise, what makes this place any different from others?

Colin Wrote:The purpose of the ID portion of the verification is strictly to confirm legal age. If you've got a better suggestion on how we should handle it, I'm all ears. I fully realize people aren't comfortable divulging some information like that, so I'm not sure what other method we can use. I guess I could just charge people a fee for verification, which would require a credit card charge. You have to be 18 to get one, so, that's another method.

You can have a credit card under 18, or you can buy a pre-paid one that acts just like the real thing (the newest foe in the WOT, next to pre-paid cell phones). Or they could use a debit card which anychild could aquire.

It is a big leap of faith to give out your personal info but think about it, a scammer would never think about doing that so we could deter most of them (granted a few will try to break the system).

We could send you a receipt of a purchase of cigarettes, lotttery tickets, porno, or alchol...